Interview with Sergio Haddad

By Waldo Lao Fuentes – IALLA VI graduate
Photo: http://paposocial.com.br/encontros-anteriores/

Sergio Haddad, economist and educator, Master and PhD in History and Sociology of Education, member of the Comissão Nacional de Educação de Jovens e Adultos (National Commission for Young and Adults Education) and of the  Conselho de Desenvolvimento Econômico e Social da Presidência da República (Council of Economic and Social Development of the Presidency of the Republic), consultant at the Ação Educativa, director-president of the Fundo Brasil de Direitos Humanos (Brazil Fund of Human Rights) and former president of ABONG.

He is currently a member of the Executive Council of the ICAE.

1.    Which in your opinion are the most relevant issues to be addressed at the upcoming ICAE World Assembly, and why?
When we defined the issues for the next assembly during a seminar last year, we thought they would be contributions to encourage the international civil society of adult educators (men and women) to get involved in the challenges we are experiencing at present.  From my point of view, all of them are connected to only one concern: to build a decent world for all the people, where development is aimed at obtaining the welfare of every individual, and not at a production and consumption model which is growing beyond control, with increasing social inequality and injustice and the destruction of nature.  The signs are everywhere, from the uprisings in the Arab world claiming for democracy, to the tragedy of Japan, where lives are threatened by the nuclear energy model.

2.    To which extent can the next Assembly be differentiated from those that took place in previous years?
I think that we are holding the next Assembly in a crucial moment for humankind.  The crisis experienced at the end of the last decade showed a dimension that went beyond its economic aspect.  We are experiencing a crisis that reflects the limitations of this civilization model.  And which are the signs of this crisis?  Production has never been so big, however, inequalities among and within countries and within each country are increasing.  This growth model neither generates more employment nor improves its quality; it has been destroying nature, condemning future generations.  Millions of useless products are manufactured when at the same time a high percentage of humankind has nothing to eat or farm.  Migration and urban violence have become severe.  We built cities full of resources and at the same time it is impossible to have a good quality of life in them.  That is, we are living limit situations that demand radical and urgent changes from our side.  We must not deepen the gravity of this situation.

3.    With regard to Youth & Adult Education (Y&AE):  Do you believe that the investments made and the projects implemented have had good results?
It is clear that there are some quality isolated and even systemic experiences.  However, and generally speaking, Y&AE has been relegated into the background by the majority of the governments.  They are strongly urged to allocate resources to regular child and adolescent care systems.  In spite of improvements being small and slow, this is a relevant priority.  The big mistake is that the governments treat such priorities as being exclusive.  They are unable to perceive that Y&AE is a human right, just like any other right.  Moreover, it is a strong drive for improving people’s quality of life and their access to other rights.  And finally, it is a strong drive for improving the regular system itself, because taking parents to school means appreciating the place where your children study.

4.    How do education experiences such as those carried out by the Brazilian Landless Rural Workers’ Movement (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Sem Terra – MST) or other social movements in the continent, could contribute to the Assembly with new thoughts within the framework of popular education?
I believe they can, due to two important reasons.  First, because they bring a broad adult education dimension, not reducing it to the school experience only.  They pay attention in particular to the dimension of education throughout life, which happens on a daily basis, and that is significant for the education of any citizen.  There is an educational dimension happening within the family, the community, at work, at leisure, in everyday struggles.  It is crucial that Y&AE incorporates in its reflections and practices such dimension, which is of same or more importance than school dimension.

Second, popular education developed in Latin America brings a strong message in the sense that every kind of education has a political dimension, and that we, educators, must be aware of such dimension.  There is no neutrality, as Paulo Freire taught us.  Therefore, the question we must ask is:  “Whom our educational practice has served?” “Which cause?”; “Should we deepen this civilization model, or should we be a prophetic voice to claim for another world?”

5.    In the case of Brazil, in your opinion, which should be the priorities for newly elected President Dilma Rousseff in relation to education?
The ones mentioned above are not for the Brazilian president, but for all rulers:  a quality public school for all persons, regardless of their social condition, race or gender; and the support to a public, but not state, non-school education which can project the future of a democratic and free society, in solidarity, without any discrimination and with social justice.

6.    What is your opinion on “distance education”, do you think it has the adequate quality for the development of a country?
Distance education is a means to meet the purpose of education, according to what we mentioned above.  We must take into account the development and quality of the technological instruments that we currently have at our disposal for distance education, however this does not mean that its use is beneficial on principle alone.  It will depend on how it is used, its pedagogical dimension, and for which purposes, its political dimension.  This is what will make it of quality.

7.    In Latin America, where do you think that new education processes are emerging in the construction of a more equal society?
I think that in the case of Latin America, unlike other continents, we are living in a moment with hope in the future.  There is a strong presence of the social movements and progressive governments for the most part. Within this framework, there is an increasing critical awareness that the processes of social changes will only be sustainable if they are accompanied by learning experiences which are significant for the people, either from a political and cultural point of view, or professional.  As an example, many progressive governments have adopted income transfer programs for poor populations.  These programs are very good, they alleviate poverty immediately, and help the economy with an increase in the consumption.  However, in the long term it is not sustainable in the sense that these people will only gain effective autonomy, will only have dignity, once they live on their own work.  For this to happen, education programs are needed in order to support these people in their vocational training. Government support is also needed for these people to live on their own work and to not depend on the money provided by the public power.

8.    “Another World is Possible” or “Necessary”.  What would be your contribution from the perspective of education?
Another world where all people could have a decent life, respecting the natural goods, cannot be built without certain education processes that accompany this process. And Y&AE has a lot to contribute to this process, because there is no experience in the history of humankind that shows that social justice can exist without educational justice, or educational justice without social justice.  Both are intrinsically interlinked and they nurture each other.  Our job is to show the developers of the moment that humankind wishes for happiness and that not always this happiness is achieved by wealth and consumption growth, which destroys the very civilization that proposes it as a paradigm.